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Post by CuteCat on May 27, 2009 2:29:29 GMT -5
... and I think it's because of Jim's plot.
Why? Things were finally starting to work out. There have been complaints about all the drama for so long, but we were finally fixing it, and getting close to getting everyone happy. But apparently, close was good enough...
Why do it all this way? Why do it NOW? I can't understand. You somehow changed from a circus that'd help everyone, to removing a huge base and scarring everyone that had been part of it or what went on there. You picked the most drama- and emo-causing way possible of doing it, presumably just because you found watching the results fun. It just seems like a big, elaborate trolling; Making characters deeply attached to your people, only to then take them away.
I don't like hate... it's too strong a word... But I loathe it. This entire change. Maybe it's Kikari's psyche making me think this way, maybe it's something else. But the fact remains that, for a few days now, I've been feeling sick. And I think it's because of this whole situation. And the fact that you don't let Kikari recover... As the recent monster-attack proved. I understand if you want your own plots not to be forgotten, but...
You've been joke-attacking Raziel's characters and shutting them out all the time lately. Did you two get in a fight? What happened? I know that you hate Triss. You don't like Dara or the other weaklings either. It comes across all too clearly, and you seem to go out of your way just to shut him out. It's not fair... If you hate him, have the guts to say so.
I think we've been quiet long enough... It was a horrible decision at a horrible point of time. You just waited until we had gotten the MEANS to repair things, but not until we'd actually been able to USE the means. I know I'm not the only one that doesn't like it all... don't take offense, Jim, but it's just not good. And I don't think I'll ever feel better if I don't eventually just tell you.
(Writing from work. Can't focus on it if I feel sick to my stomach, as I am. This post helped me enough to be able to work, atleast...)
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Post by Arcolf on May 27, 2009 6:03:45 GMT -5
I would have to agree wholeheartedly. Jim, normally I wouldn't comment or drag myself into such a thing, but what you're doing is deplorable and disgusting.
You were offered a perfectly logical alternative that would achieve the same results WITHOUT all the trauma, and your reason for not going with it was "I don't wanna". And then you said you were doing it to help the Forest...and I told you that such extreme measures never work. Not to mention that, as CuteCat said, you picked a HORRIBLE time, and you're just not letting up anywhere.
I really can't understand it. What the hell happened to the Jim we used to know? Right now, you seem to be a heartless bastard who's only treating his characters like puppets that can be thrown away at any time. That's unacceptable.
I know you've probably been stressed, and hell, I know that you haven't been in the right state of mind. You said it yourself weeks ago, and even then you attempted that cheesewheel thing. What the hell is wrong with you?
I can even somewhat understand your reasoning behind making the Base vanish...but really, there were so many better ways to go about it rather than such a pathetic cop-out that only seems to be causing trouble!
And don't get me wrong - I'm not saying all of this because of Kikari or anyone else. I just find this type of thing disgusting.
If you would, please do explain yourself. Here. In this topic. Explain yourself and your actions FULLY. I hope it's a damned good explanation.
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Post by CuteCat on May 27, 2009 6:07:42 GMT -5
Ah, on that note, it didn't do anything to help the Forest. It broke down what we'd been trying to fix, actually making it WORSE than if you'd just left it all alone.
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Post by Vaxx on May 30, 2009 9:22:07 GMT -5
hi what happened
i missed it because i was gone but i want to hear it from a not pro-CC biased source first before i voice my opinion
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Post by Raziel-chan on May 30, 2009 11:53:12 GMT -5
I... Am not good at writing longer things... At least not when I'm so conflicted myself. Things were going in the right direction... Well, mostly, and then this... One of the worst possible solutions, mentally scarring many characters, with the capability of affecting even more. And... IC, for no reason, leaving no one to direct their anger at... Just nothing.
No way to stop/prevent it, no way to change anything, totally arbitrary rules... Like, one of the first rules - humanoids only. Yet, Zakragon, who is NOT a humanoid, gets to enter, while Leafkiya, a humanoid, doesn't get to enter. Or the random disabling of Chikya's translator in that place... Yeah. Or why won't Dara be let in, but Kara was? No idea on my part. No logical IC idea, at least.
Kikari went insane because of this. Twice. And then you had to enter another monster, tormenting him further. I have no idea why... Really.
And, I have no idea what I did either... Why did you decide to attack my characters for no apparent reason? And why were you so gleeful after destroying Vitrillix's mind? Or why would Andre, a man wed to a four-armed, green-scaled naga with metallic scarab wings and horns, call a girl with wings, tail and animal ears a freak of nature?
And the shutting out... Or how I was ignored at #CloneRP and had to post about my characters many times for them to be noticed, or remembered... It wasn't nice, at all. And how you just dropped Trish into my control without asking and then refused to control her at all, leaving me with a character I don't know how to RP... Ehh... Or avoiding my questions, shrugging them off or just plain ignoring them entirely... I just don't know what to think anymore.
I still consider you a friend, but... Lately, you've been so different... So uncaring, troll-like, cruel to characters, unreasonable... I just have no idea what to think. I really WANT to remain your friend, but I can't help but feel sick when thinking about all this, and sometimes feel sad thinking about you.
As Arf asked... What happened, Jim? What happened to the old you that we liked so much? Why do you do this?
cya Raziel-chan
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Jim
Amateur
Banhammer Time!
Hammertime!
Posts: 137
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Post by Jim on Jun 1, 2009 1:00:38 GMT -5
Dude, I totally just noticed this.
As far as I'm concerned, most of the lot I had running around the forest felt as stale as that loaf of bread I left in the garage eight months ago. Dull, uninteresting, unamusing, and I felt like I was forced to continue to play them out. So, yank plug. Bam.
That aside, hey. I do this every now and then. Wipe one set, shove 'em off elsewhere out of sight, then put in new guys that DO amuse me. When I feel like it, maybe bring the old guys back. So for cryin' out loud, stop trying to have some godmod character "Fix" everything that I'm trying to set up for myself. If I remove a character from play, it's mostly because I DO NOT WANT TO PLAY THAT CHARACTER ANYMORE. If I'm setting up a quest or sub-plot to get that character rescued, I'll bloody well say so. I was just gonna leave it at "Stick everybody in a cryogenic warehouse and start over when I feel like it", but I guess that would've been too much for you guys.
Also, because I wanted to see what sort of ruckus I could stir up without actually having anybody be attacked or harmed. Ta-friggidy-da.
That aside, did I at any point permanently get rid of anybody that was actually important?
Long story short, jeez, you guys. Chill. You're taking things too seriously.
Edit - oh, and before you start in, don't expect me to answer all of your questions. Especially ones trying to get me to justify IC crud, 'cause I won't.
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Post by CuteCat on Jun 1, 2009 2:04:42 GMT -5
Then, all I want to know is why you seem to dislike Raziel so much... You seem to have a hard time interacting with him. You just stop and focus on something else, or do some kind of bullshit that puts your character in a position where they don't have to interact with his characters at all. You seem hateful toward him all the time, yet refuse to give a reason... The least you could do is to explain why. Do you hate all his characters that much? Does he just BORE you? Does he only try to interact with your "boring loaf o' bread" characters(not explaining why Jess stopped talking yesterday since she's not such a character)? Is it a plan to mindf*ck him? WHY?
As for taking things too seriously, I have a direct link to my characters. Their moods influence mine, and vice versa. Much like the mental link forced between Kikari and Claire, really. Thus why this entire thing makes me feel physically sick. He's suffering too much...
There are a lot of ways to remove someone you don't want to use anymore. Hell, sometimes people just stop appearing, and nobody thinks twice about it. I guess that I just don't see what would make you remove every single character you own, interesting or not. If you want them to be left alone then you can simply say so... I also don't see why you'd throw in an all-new Misaki that SOMEHOW is already very accustomed to everything that goes on, rather than let the old one back in. Especially as you already seem bored with her, judging from the way you play her... Then again, I guess the old one wouldn't be as good for random lesbian love-affairs, huh? Thus the amnesia.
Still... what's done is done, and by this time it's doubtful that Kikari's sanity will ever fully return. There's nothing I can do about it, and the "kill everybody off" plot has already been finished. All I want to know is why you hate Raziel so much, but are too cowardly to say it.
Well, atleast you came with a kind answer... although now I feel sick again... and this time, making the post didn't help. Feels like I'll throw up...
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Post by Raziel-chan on Jun 1, 2009 11:55:51 GMT -5
So... A character is uninteresting and you just... Remove them? Bam? Just like that? ... I... Don't think I even need to comment how wrong it is... They aren't action figures to discard or give away once you become bored with them...
... "Godmod character trying to fix everything"...? Please elaborate.
Also, if anything, you could go straight to our characters with these explanations... Sorry, I can't just make them stop caring all of a sudden, just because you don't feel like RPing your own characters. They react how they do, and we cannot change that without breaking them. Simple as that. So, telling us that you don't want to RP some characters doesn't really achieve anything, and 'wiping one set' leads to them being traumatized, which in turn makes us feel horrible, sick, depressed...
Ah... So it all amuses you and you did it for shits and giggles? ... ;-;
No, you didn't get rid of anybody particularly important... But these 'not particularly important' people have made a fearsome impact with their disappearance.
Also, I care for my characters, I share their feelings, much like CC does. I can NOT not take it seriously...
And I won't ask about what CC asked about... I just can't do that without feeling egoistical.
cya Raziel-chan
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Post by berserkchip on Jun 1, 2009 22:05:32 GMT -5
Dude, I totally just noticed this. As far as I'm concerned, most of the lot I had running around the forest felt as stale as that loaf of bread I left in the garage eight months ago. Dull, uninteresting, unamusing, and I felt like I was forced to continue to play them out. So, yank plug. Bam. That aside, hey. I do this every now and then. Wipe one set, shove 'em off elsewhere out of sight, then put in new guys that DO amuse me. When I feel like it, maybe bring the old guys back. So for cryin' out loud, stop trying to have some godmod character "Fix" everything that I'm trying to set up for myself. If I remove a character from play, it's mostly because I DO NOT WANT TO PLAY THAT CHARACTER ANYMORE. If I'm setting up a quest or sub-plot to get that character rescued, I'll bloody well say so. I was just gonna leave it at "Stick everybody in a cryogenic warehouse and start over when I feel like it", but I guess that would've been too much for you guys. Also, because I wanted to see what sort of ruckus I could stir up without actually having anybody be attacked or harmed. Ta-friggidy-da. That aside, did I at any point permanently get rid of anybody that was actually important? Long story short, jeez, you guys. Chill. You're taking things too seriously. Edit - oh, and before you start in, don't expect me to answer all of your questions. Especially ones trying to get me to justify IC crud, 'cause I won't. Look, I'm new to the forum, and I haven't Rped in a year, and I don't have the full story, but from what I've gathered, it sounds like you're the game master of an RP that both CuteCat and RazielChan joined, and you made some plot-based decision that effected their characters on an emotional level with no basis of an explanation beyond "Cuz it amuses me." Furthermore, from what I gather from CuteCat's posts, it seems that, in game, you are ignoring RC's characters and avoiding his questions about it and such. Listen, from one RP creator to another, I'm gonna give you a little tip. Treat your fellow RPrs with the respect they deserve. You like being "amused" while playing an RP? How would you like it if your fellow RPrs got fed up with your game, up and left? I've had that happen to RPs that I put a lot of work into making the plots for (RazielChan may know what I'm talking about since he helped me with a lot of the RP's I made), thereby rendering all that work pointless. It was one of the reasons I kinda fell out of Rping for a while, other than Raziel Chan's site suddenly vanishing. If your actions are based soley on amusement, even if it makes your fellow RPrs uncomfortable, it'll only be a matter of time before they up and leave, and then you'll have to amuse yourself. It doesn't matter if you're a long time member or a mod, and it doesn't matte how long your Rp has gone on for. (I've seen pretty long ones end because of friction between the people behind the puppet strings) I hope I don't sound too mean, especially since I'm probably missing something since I don't think anyone could horrible as to kill off a bunch of characters without a better reason than a amusement. I decided to butt in because A) Raziel-Chan is a friend B) IRA forum survivors should stick together and C) something about this topic and, although I have no direct relation, I felt like I needed to point out the necessity of good, or at the very very least neutral human relations that keeps an RP successful. Despite what people think, its interactivity between the people just as much as it is with the characters they play. I hope I didn't make any logic mistakes there. I kinda thought this through a bit.
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Post by CuteCat on Jun 2, 2009 1:19:30 GMT -5
Ah, I could give you the entire story. Even if just thinking about it makes me feel ill...
Basically, long ago Jim made characters and got them hooked up with ours. An entire base full of people, some becoming the lovers or significant others of our characters while another one did everything he could to protect and help them all. There'd been a lot of complaints about too much drama in the forest, so we'd all been trying to stop it all, and had finally gotten to a point where such a thing was possible. But, due to a lot of recent bad things (the stuff that caused drama) ICly, my character in particular was rather dependant on something they could do at that base, as were Raziel's characters dependant on their significant others due to various things.
So it was at this point, knowing fully well how important those people were to our characters' health and safety and how much we'd been trying to fix things, that Jim decided to just remove the whole thing. No warning or way to stop it even a little bit, just "poof gone". Which caused my guy and one of Raz's to lose their minds almost completely, due to a mental link that was ALSO made by Jim between our characters and his (presumably to show how deep a bond they had) and that, when broken, made the surviving part pretty much go rabid.
The only reason the protector hasn't lost it yet is because he's still trying to find a way to help all the other ones that were left behind, and the two others are very heavily mentally scarred. Although those "important" characters came back, as you can see he hadn't planned for them to, and only did so because we got angry at him.
As for Raziel, it's been going on for a long time. For some reason, he's too cowardly to tell Raziel outright that he doesn't want to RP with him, so he ignores his posts or comes with some ridiculous bullshit to get out of it. As an example, he had two characters ORBIT A RANDOM STAR, and someone once got randomly frozen in time! It happens way too often that he just stops responding, or tries to undermine what Raz's characters do completely. He's told me in PM that he hates or dislikes the way certain of Raz's characters are, but lately it seems that he's acting that way to all of them... Which is definately not justified.
He's also told me in PM that he'd like it more if my character, Kikari, lost his mind completely and went insane, rather than trying desperately to stay sane. Just because it'd be less "wishy-washy stuff". Since Kikari's a very important character to me, this was rather upsetting... Hell, I feel ill to the point that mom said she'd take me to the doctor, since I don't feel good enough to eat breakfast in the morning. And he seems to have no real reason for any of this, as stated. We've started to grow hesitant about it all already, it feels like he's just trying to troll us and see how much he can mindf*ck our characters, to me. Seeing how far he can go before someone actually bans him or something...
That's the general story. I think you can see why we're upset. As you can see from his response (MJR), he did it all in the worst way possible just for giggles. He doesn't seem to care at all about how he's made both me and Raz feel horrible for such a long time...
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Post by Observer on Jun 3, 2009 13:44:59 GMT -5
Remember class: The most important thing in an RP is making it fun for everyone, not just yourself.
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Post by cruel on Jun 4, 2009 15:21:11 GMT -5
Hmmm... not really my problem, but I'll take my chances that I can help.
Well, all I could say is laced with my usual callousness bordering on cruelty, but I'll have to take my own side here anyway. Arcolf, if he wants to destroy his own characters, he's in his full right. And such a connection to constructs of your own imagination, Raziel, CC, is... cruel as this will sound, I'm not sure it's good for you.
Then again, Major, though you are in your inalienable right to kill off your own characters as you see fit, and despite it would be cynical (bordering on perverse), of us to believe you did that for the reaction you earned yourself, you should reconsider what you did. You have the time, undeniably you have reasons, and I'll bet you have the maturity to think about it.
So please, everyone, take a step back, take a deep breath, be respectful of each other's will, and be grownups about this. It pains me to see people disagree this badly.
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Post by CuteCat on Jun 4, 2009 15:43:22 GMT -5
It's not healthy. But it's kept me sane, happy, and probably from attempting suicide (the closest I got was threatening to run out into the street and get run over once). It gives me a way to get rid of bad feelings without harming my surroundings, and... I pretty much know that I'm f*cked up already. I don't think I can survive if I'm forced to handle everything on my own again. So even if it makes me sick during times like these... For the most part, it helps me instead.
I don't want to seem hateful. I just don't know how to handle this sickness - I wrote it all just so I could focus once more, since I felt so sick at the time. I honestly contemplated just deleting it before anyone read... So please don't hate me for creating this, I don't want to be mean or anything, I just needed an outlet...
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Post by cruel on Jun 6, 2009 9:24:29 GMT -5
Don't take me the wrong way, miss. Having the guts to confront a friend about something you don't like something is a virtue which we all need. I don't hate you, how could I, when you've been so open with us all?
The plot made you sick. Maybe you need to give it up or ask for it to be removed from... canon, or consider it an alternate dimension, or something. Comics are full of ways to make a heart-wrenching plot be something on the level of a night after a bad taco. I'm sure he'll be an adult about it, and realize that it's best for everyone that way.
Unless he decides to think of you as a drama queen who can't handle his likes and dislikes. Sometimes, the moods are angsty, cynical, dark, and give you a crapsack feeling that the world is a goddamn cruel place, you're alone and you'll die that way seeing everything crumble down around you. Some works of art are good in that way. Maybe Jim was trying to aim for such a mood. Or maybe it's as he said, he wanted some fresh air, he wanted to drop those characters at once. Some characters grow on you, CC, and some characters grow too much on you, to the level you decide all you want is to overpower and consume them, and END them and bury them in a small part of your mind you'll later set fire to. And you get an horrible nagging feeling until you do, a feeling which if you got about someone in real life, you'd go to jail (it's happened to me... several times already. Luckily all my characters are dicks and no one cares about them one way or another).
Or maybe, you could remember them as they were. That way we could all be happy.
I'm just trying to help. If I'm not, do tell me. I'd have no qualms in leaving it up to you to solve your own differences.
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Post by CuteCat on Jun 7, 2009 8:56:28 GMT -5
... I'm sorry, I didn't catch your drift there.
Things are just about as solved as they'll get, and I don't feel like killing any of my characters off, and well... Uh. I just don't get what you were talking about, there. Take care?
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Post by Crimson_Hunter on Jun 12, 2009 4:14:48 GMT -5
I had locked this topic, because well it wasn't going anywhere fast, no offense to you CC, because I know well how this effects you. Though now that I saw it myself first hand, I am a bit perplexed and I think it merits further discussion, especially from Jim him self. I was a bit shocked how events unfolded and how unneeded they became. I'm not sure, I haven't been involved enough to be sure, but I will leave this topic open for the time being.
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