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Post by CuteCat on Jun 26, 2010 9:17:34 GMT -5
I have to admit. I'm very confused about how this happened. The recent event caused both Jim and Xanit to be permabanned, and while Jim is an understandable case due to how obviously angry everyone has ever been with him, Xanit is in a more grey area and what caused his ban was even grayer.
Part of what got him banned was TRYING TO PROTECT SYRIANA. Astro attacked Syr out of nowhere for saying she had been a good DM. Xanit tried to protect her and her RPing skills, and all he did to the contrary was to not lie about the problems Syr DOES have. Syr seemed to take this not lying, despite all the help and support, as Xanit attacking her right along with Astro. Somehow everyone else latched onto this, and Xanit was made into the bad guy right alongside Astro.
A member named Adam joined into the middle of this, and basically saw Xan and Astro fight over Syr. Both sides of an argument are detrimental to a channel, so he was made into one of the bad guys.
Xan voiced his dislike for where the RP channel has gone. As far as I have seen, this is the other reason he was banned. Is this such a huge offense? Our members constantly seem to do this, saying that they dislike a part of an RP or a member or where the plot has gone... Etcetera. Even us ops have done this, yet here it got him permabanned for not trying to change it enough. Honestly, that's what he was told when saying he didn't like where it had gone.
It's a general consensus that Jim worsened Xanit's behaviour. Now Jim is gone, however. It was basically decided and proven that Xanit acted way worse whenever Jim was around, and was otherwise fairly harmless. With Jim gone, this logically means Xanit's behaviour would get better.
I'm not asking for him to be unbanned instantly. A day-ban, a week-ban... Come with how long you want him to be banned. I'm not saying he should be taken off the hook instantly, but we never punished him in the least before. A permaban is too abrupt and too cruel a punishment, like letting children run around on your lawn. And then one day they run around on the lawn before you've mowed it, so you gun them down.
I'll take all responsibility for Xanit if he returns. I've already asked him over MSN that he can't attack other members or grammar in the chat, and as such should voice his complaints to me in PM or MSN. If he acts out of line and attacks someone else, I'll take responsibility for his behaviour because quite honestly, it would be my fault. I'll keep in touch with him and hopefully, through keeping a close eye on him and his antics, he can become the lovable innocent spam-cat we used to have. If he continues to act horrid then he can be banned again, as it seems he's on his last limb(some people feel he's lost even that). I won't be unreasonable.
Normally, the worst thing he does is spamming. This is amusing for some and annoying for others, but it's hardly something that makes him a horrible member. Vaxx does the same thing and gets a lot less hate for it, so I don't believe it has any bearing on what happened now.
All in all, it seems like he was permabanned for minor offenses and spamming. Do you really tell me this is needed or fair? If he's to be permabanned it should be for a larger offense. You can forward any complaints about him to me, if he is to return, but being banned for something everyone does and helping another member is hardly fair in any way. I may be biased since he's my friend and all, but I believe others are biased from being angry or annoyed with previous offenses he's made. As stated, I will do my best to prevent ANY of these issues from resurfacing, so he won't do anything worse than spam.
Post any thoughts here.
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Post by Striker on Jun 26, 2010 10:40:14 GMT -5
Y'know, if he stops doing it, I guess that's fine. Though I'm not entirely sure he can help it.
I think the thing that seems the worst about it is something Adam himself pointed out after awhile. We're trying to keep new blood around, and all we're getting is negativity about how the place is, and then a big fight. Right in front of the new guy. Though really, Jim kicked that off, and he mostly followed. I don't think he really got banned for actually complaining about this though, I'd have to assume it was the spam, with a perma tacked on after he then posted some stuff on the forum himself.
I am a little perplexed about how most of this went down, though. Xanit was actually defending Syr when he was kicked for the dumb stuff he'd done prior. If he was going to get in trouble for what he'd done there, the time had passed.
Overall, though, I don't really think what he did HERE deserves a permaban. It was a bad time for drama, but other than that...eh. Maybe the weight of his previous actions deserves it, but he hardly gets punished for any of what he already does, and go to straight to a permaban from that...eh.
I do wish he'd stop spamming, or if nothing else, try to keep it somewhat coherent and not superbright color. And...no offense to you, Xanit, but... David Ruffin was one of the most important members of the Motown group "The Temptations." Ever heard "My Girl?" That was him. He was incredibly important. However, when he started to become a liability to the group through his own actions, he was kicked out.
You are displeased with how things are going, but most of your ideas on improvement are either not sustainable(we don't get nearly enough new people to require a signup) or really vaguely defined (get rid of the stupid people, how, and are you confusing stupid people with 'new players that don't know nuts and need to learn? And with the way you act with the spamming and rambling, aren't you subject to this too?) and anytime you get confronted on it you start spamming, or focusing only on their grammar errors, or insulting yourself and being passive-aggressive.
It's good to have been part of forming the room, and respect is due for it, however, respect can get lost. What have you been up to lately? You've mostly been more destructive than constructive regardless of what you've said. But right now this is about what you've done LATELY. And tenure no longer matters.
For what it's worth though, I'm not gonna call for a permaban. Especially if he's going to work on things as has been claimed. And I hope his treatment is a bit more consistent this time.
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Fusion
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Post by Fusion on Jun 26, 2010 11:52:18 GMT -5
The permaban was an effect of the situation at hand. Jim and Xanit were both being disruptive at the time.
Not even I fully agree that Xanit's ban should be a permanent one. Compared to what Jim did, Xanit is far more small time. By no means should he be unbanned immediately, but given time to at least cool down a bit. I'm in favor of a week.
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Post by syriana on Jun 26, 2010 13:46:08 GMT -5
Absolutely NOT. Xanit does not deserve a perma-ban for what he did. The things he said to me, did not really offend me all that much, mostly because he's said much worse things to me in the past.
The only reason I was complaining that night was because I'd just come from a very successful turn at DMing a game of Dungeons and Dragons. I was in a VERY good mood, a great one in fact. I jumped into the OOC room to say hello and immediately got sucked in to a bunch of drama I don't think I deserved to be a part of.
As far as Xanit "defending" me I'm not sure this is the case. Past history shows the Xanit and Jim's favorite past time was ganging up on me and trolling me in that room. I even said in the room that I wasn't sure if what Xanit was saying was legitimately what he thought, or if they were off in #Koniki_ooc snickering amongst themselves and mocking me, and honestly I'm still not sure.
But that's not why Xanit was banned. If I remember correctly, SEVERAL times in the past, and in that day, Crimson or other mods have told him to stop certain behavior because it was upsetting and disrupting others. And each time Xanit (And also Jim) simply continued to do exactly whatever it was they wanted to do with absolutely no consequences.
Do I believe Xanit should be perma-banned? No. I like Xanit, probably a good deal more than he likes me. But he needs to know that there are REAL consequences when the mods tell him to do something and he DOES NOT do it. There are rules, and he has to follow them.
And NO ONE else here should have to play by HIS own Grammar Nazi rules, that's just unfair and ridiculous and it needs to be STOPPED completely. This is not a personality quirk that can be ignored or looked over. This is serious harassment of other members and he needs to leave it at the door.
What I suggest is a three day to one week ban starting yesterday. Not for insulting/protecting me, but for harassing members and then refusing to stop when mods warned him.
The only reason I am hesitant to let him back, is because there was SO much of a ridiculously long string of "last chances" he and Jim got before something was FINALLY done about their ways. I fear if he's let back in he'll behave for a day or two, and then begin to run roughshod over the moderators again who simply don't want to be the bad guy and deal with a nasty situation.
Oh, and when he comes back there should be NO talk from him about possibly bringing Jim back, or the fact that Jim is banned. We don't need the drama around here. Jim is gone, and I hope to God it's forever.
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Post by Raziel-chan on Jun 26, 2010 14:31:37 GMT -5
I'm against a permanent ban, but I'd see him banned for anywhere from 2 days to a week. He's been riding on his "Core Member" status for too long and everything he did was being ignored. He needs to be punished. Law is supposed to be equal, no matter if you were in the channel from the start, or for the last month.
He needs to tone his behhavior down, BIG TIME. No more Grammatik Uber Alles stuff.
cya Raziel-chan
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Post by Crimson_Hunter on Jun 26, 2010 14:57:29 GMT -5
I am going to sound cold, heartless, and as calculating as possible. Like how this sort of decision should be made.
Xan, was a friend of mine, maybe he'll continue to be who knows.
Now the reason he was perm banned, wasn't just for tonight. It wasn't just for the hell he caused in the room. It was an accumulation of annoyances and overall stupidity.
I am also going to point out, as I was one of the only mods around when Xanit started crap, I think I know a little better than the others. Also, the mods had already reached a consensus. We had already agreed with the terms. This poll, is saying we can't do our jobs, and I don't really take to it well.
As for that night. I asked him to stop spamming. I kicked him. In Xanit fashion, he yells, disrespects and continues. Like he always does. So he continues, I kick him again. Which at the point I say, stop or I'm going to ban. Just for an hour. Then Jim calls me a sh*tty mod. At which point him and Jim continue to insult me.
Now, I'm not sure if you've ever been in other channels, but doing this to ops in other channels. That is pretty much an instant kick/ban situation, but as I have had bans pulled prior I am a little iffy when I do that now. :/
[23:19] <+Xanit|Slepl> Don't take any of the ops as an example of anything because they kinda suck And this shining moment of stupidity. He says we all suck, except for Ceese.
Then Xan, once again, goes about insulting Forest. Calling it dying, because of the new members. Very positive message to throw out in public.
Which he later said, ALL he can do is complain about it and wouldn't even try to help change what he thought is wrong.
Then he goes on to talk as if he owns the channel. As if he could get away with anything he wanted just because he helped create it.
<Adam`Smyth> If I wasn;t used to seeing things like this, I would instantly shoot this game down as no good, all because of two players. Thankfully I can see past bad seeds. Then there is that. New people showing up to this insanity, isn't good for us. At all. It makes us look like we just let people do whatever they wish.
<+Xanit|Slepl> How is "get rid of people who are dumb" a detriment? If this isn't a sign he will continue with what he has been doing, I don't know what is. He is basically on a crusade to chase off our newer members or ones he just doesn't like.
I took examples from the logs so I can show how much I don't like the idea of him ever coming back. He has become a nuisance. Also, I know Jim is an influence to him, but that isn't a way out. We are in control of our own actions and Xan should deal with the consequences of the actions that both he and Jim have done.
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Post by astrodude55 on Jun 26, 2010 14:59:16 GMT -5
*sighs*
I don't like Xan much, but I'd assume that's because of his recent actions and behavior. I remember when Xan used to be fun and we'd play Street Fighter IV over XBL. That's why I liked Xan in the first place; He was fun and easy-to-talk-to. It seems like since I've come back, he's changed. I'd say he changed because of influences from Jim.
To me; he should stay banned for a week or more, but no longer than a month. Why? He needs time to chill out.
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Post by brenden on Jun 26, 2010 15:35:47 GMT -5
Let's see: For a start the permaban was in effect for more then just the the night of hell and utter stupidity that befell the OOC channel, as Crim pointed out, he has had so many "last chances" that it's not funny.
Sure I am still a fairly new member, but the time that I've spent here I've seen him disrespect Ops and how they go about trying to do their job, members (new or current) on their RP habits, grammar etc... Last night he even went as far as publicly saying that the new members were the cause of "death" of #forest, which in my mind sounds absolutely stupid.
I suppose the permaban was a little harsh, but that said, take into consideration the amount of crap we've had to deal with in regards to his attitude to everyone/thing from grammar to just plain out picking random things to complain about.
I recommend a week to a month for the ban, even though in a mod's perspective, he's done things that indeed warrant the current permaban. Regardless, allow him to come back after he has calmed down, and if he's willing to change his ways then great....if not, well, I do not want to be the one having to deal with it.
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Post by Observer on Jun 27, 2010 1:14:35 GMT -5
I agree with the points raised in this thread. In my opinion, he would be well-served by knowing when to keep his mouth shut.
He does not own the channel, and without any Op powers he has no real authority. Before he is allowed to return, he must be made to understand that. The ban still shouldn't be permanent, but we should keep a very watchful eye on him and tell him when he's approaching or crossing the line so that he can learn where the line is. That seemed to be the real problem area for him to figure out, and its what really led to this ban.
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Xanit
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Post by Xanit on Jun 29, 2010 21:10:34 GMT -5
I will now address everything I find important. [23:19] <+Xanit|Slepl> Don't take any of the ops as an example of anything because they kinda suck You took it out of context, man! Fus said to not take me as an example of the community and I TOTALLY had to make a reciprocated rebuttal. TOTALLY. Xan, was a friend of mine, maybe he'll continue to be who knows. D'awwww! Of course I wi- ... >continue to be who knows >continue to be. Who knows? Fixed. I LOVE YOU ANYWAY!! :3
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Post by astrodude55 on Jun 30, 2010 5:48:06 GMT -5
You can't vote for yourself Xanit. The vote is still 7 no and 2 yes.
Oh, and Xan? Great way to be hypocritical to your own logic, there. I remember some time ago, we came across the topic of 'second chances'. YOU said you don't give people second chances because people don't change. You said they never will. Now, here you are trying to sway Crim into thinking otherwise and, literally, begging for another chance with an overnight "change of heart".
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Xanit
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Post by Xanit on Jul 1, 2010 18:38:04 GMT -5
You can't vote for yourself Xanit. The vote is still 7 no and 2 yes. Oh, and Xan? Great way to be hypocritical to your own logic, there. I remember some time ago, we came across the topic of 'second chances'. YOU said you don't give people second chances because people don't change. You said they never will. Now, here you are trying to sway Crim into thinking otherwise and, literally, begging for another chance with an overnight "change of heart". >Talking about something I already realized >Implying I'm begging >Implying I plan on changing >Implying Crim needs to have a change of heart to love me again >Implying I was serious about voting for myself HE HE HEI was permabanned. When talking with CuteCat, I told her the main reason I didn't WANT to come back was because I'd be getting my "second chance" thing that we gave Astro, and look how that turned out. She said that you had changed, and I was all wah no he didn't, but that's beside the point. The thing is that you were also permabanned and then let back in. Triest was permabanned and then let back in. I believe that those two things should never have been revoked, and here, without my particular want, CuteCat is asking to let me back in and defending me while my argument is undefendable. I feel that if I come back now, I'll be on the same moral level as you and Triest. This is degrading. Hold on, makin' a song about it. konikiforest.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=buhbye&thread=532&page=1There, the second one. Note the difference. By the way, nice random, uncalled-for, and baseless attack, Astro. Like we haven't seen that before. (In before someone quotes this and uses it as a reason to re-ban me)
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Post by astrodude55 on Jul 2, 2010 5:13:38 GMT -5
Make of it what you want, Xan. You just see what you want to see anyway.
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Post by CuteCat on Jul 2, 2010 5:28:33 GMT -5
Don't be a retard, Xan. You ass. This is NOT the place for arguments, for that matter! Stop with it! You honestly have no say in what happens to you, and this kind of behaviour will only make you much much more likely to stay banned forever. I don't give a sh*t about your pride or whatever, neither Triest nor Astro have made themselves deserving of a new permaban since they returned and I doubt you will. Stop with the freaking nazism and actually try to put some effort into being kind...
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Xanit
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Post by Xanit on Jul 2, 2010 15:44:18 GMT -5
Hm. You may be half right, kid. (except the Triest part)
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Post by Crimson_Hunter on Jul 3, 2010 11:18:25 GMT -5
Xan, I pulled your ban from the forum so you could at least have a voice in this. I was hoping maybe you would bring something to the table, with your point of view, and allows us some understanding as to why we should allow you back. Unfortunately the voice you had decided to use is that of cat's on a hot tin roof, shrill and annoying. Your arrogance and unwillingness to change is evident in each post you have put up. You have no voice in this anymore. You had another chance, but I believe you have ruined it. With this I say, the ban stays and shall stay. It is obvious to me he will not become any better.
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Post by silverianna on Jul 16, 2010 8:11:02 GMT -5
If Xanit has a problem with my style of rp ..he should come and tell me in pm and we'll duscuss this reasonable as possible.
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Post by CuteCat on Jul 16, 2010 8:40:27 GMT -5
Okay, this issue has actually been solved and now it's just getting derailed. I'm locking this, open a new topic if you have a new issue to discuss.
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